Masoud Barzani’s Interview with Shams TV
The Kurdish leader touches on a wide variety of issues in an hour-long interview.
(Image credit: Screenshot from Shams TV interview)
Masoud Barzani, the leader of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) in Iraq, gave an exclusive interview to Shams TV, an Arabic-language satellite channel broadcasting from Erbil in the Kurdistan Region (KR) of Iraq. Shams TV is funded by the KDP and is designed as a pan-Arab channel, targeting not just Iraqi Arab audiences but the broader Arab world. It appears to be launched as the Kurdish competitor to Al-Jazeera Arabic, Al-Arabiya TV, and Sky News Arabia.
Barzani is perhaps the most influential Kurdish politician today, whether in Iraq or regionally. He and his KDP have a broad network of relations with regional states and international actors, from the US to Europe, Turkey, and the Gulf Arab states.
The one-hour-long interview covered numerous local and regional topics. Apart from the content of Barzani’s remarks, the interview was notable because this was the first time, as far as I can remember (at least for the past couple of decades), that Barzani actually gave an interview inside a TV studio. He typically conducts his interviews in his office (or on the go if he is travelling). He appeared at Shams’ studio in Erbil and was interviewed by the veteran Lebanese journalist Elie Nakouzi, who also serves as Shams’s General Manager. Nakouzi had also interviewed Barzani in the years after the Iraq War in 2003 for his From Iraq show on the Saudi-funded Al-Arabiya TV.
Barzani tried to strike a friendly tone toward the post-Assad de facto government in Damascus, led by Ahmed al-Sharaa. However, he insisted that Syrian Kurds must be treated fairly and that Kurdish rights in Syria must be respected.
On Iraq, he was critical of the policies and attitudes of the Shia political class in Baghdad toward Kurds. He warned that if the pro-Iran Iraqi armed factions were to resume attacks on Israel, Iraq could be targeted by Israel. He added that Kurds across the region should seek to resolve their issues with the governments of the states where they live peacefully. He particularly singled out the PKK, saying Kurds had not benefited from conflict and armed struggle.
He criticized US policy toward Kurds during Trump’s first term but blamed it mostly on the individuals in the US administration and the Embassy in Baghdad or military institutions, not Trump himself.
Below is a detailed account of the interview, translated by “Eye on Kurdistan.”
On Syria
Barzani said, “I was surprised by the speed of the [Bashar al-Assad] regime’s collapse” but not by the collapse itself, as the regime was suffering from “fatal isolation.” He added that had it not been because of the Russian, Iranian, and Hezbollah’s role and intervention, the regime would have collapsed in 2011.
Regarding Syria’s new de facto authority led by Ahmed al-Sharaa (formerly Abu Mohammed al-Jolani), Barzani said, “what we have been hearing so far has been fine and reasonable words… [but] we have the right to be cautious.” He expressed hope that Sharaa’s words would be translated into actions.
Regarding Syria’s Kurds, Barzani said Kurds have been suffering from state oppression since 1962 when the state-sponsored ethnic cleansing Arabization campaign began in Syria. “The most important thing we expect from the new system is to terminate this suffering of the Kurdish people, and other components of the Syrian people, so they gain their freedoms, and feel their dignity, citizenship, and humanity.” He called on the Syrian Kurds “to take the path of dialogue” and called on Damascus to “understand the particularism of the Kurds in the region.”
When pressed by Nakouzi on what he exactly meant by f”reedom for Kurds”—whether federalism or decentralization—Barzani said he would leave the matter for Syrian Kurds themselves to first agree on a common vision for their rights in Syria and then to reach an agreement with the new regime in Syria about it. “I don’t want to determine the type of solution that they will agree on,’” he said.
Regarding his meeting with the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) Commander Mazloum Abdi, Barzani said the Kurdish national interests required the meeting to be held “and he [Abdi] thankfully came, and I received him. We exchanged ideas and expectations. Abdi talked about his meeting with Mr. Sharaa. It seems they had some agreement and some disagreement. I advised him to not give up and resort to the path of dialogue and relinquish any foreign influence and to unify the Kurdish position.” By “foreign influence” he appeared to mean the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) of Turkey.
Regarding SDF relations with the PKK, Barzani said, “I did not advise Abdi to clash with the PKK, but now is the time for the PKK to leave the Syrian Kurds alone to decide their future, and leave the area. Because their presence has become a major problem and has become an excuse for Turkish intervention.”
Barzani said Syrian Kurds are “cautious and have fears because the future is unknown, and they don’t know what the future is going to be. When asked by Nakouzi about separatism, Barzani said he did not see any signs of “separatism… in any way” from Abdi. He said Kurds are part of Syria, but they have rights, rights that they were deprived of since the foundation of the Syrian state.”
Regarding the role the KR can play in Syria, Barzani said, “The KR can play an important role by helping unify the Kurdish ranks, encouraging Kurds to engage in dialogue with Damascus, and [for Syrian Kurds] to learn from the KR experience, but not in the sense of copying the KR’s experience in Syria. Each case has its own particularity, and they should act according to their particularity there. We try to help them economically.”
Nakouzi then asked, “and militarily,” to which Barzani replied, “We hope neither them nor us [Iraqi Kurds] will have to resort to using military force.”
Nakouzi asked if Syrian Kurds were subjected to injustice and oppression again, would he send his Peshmerga forces to fight alongside their brethren in Syria. Barzani’s answer was: “Frankly, not only Kurds but any human who is exposed to injustice, and if we could help them, we would help them without hesitation.” His answer appeared to serve as a deterrent, a diplomatic signal that Iraqi Kurds might provide support for Syrian Kurds if the latter came under attack and faced unjust treatment from Damascus. There is no indication that the SDF has received any military assistance from the KDP or Iraqi Kurds in general over the course of the past several weeks of clashes with the Turkish-backed Syrian National Army militants.
Asked if the Iraqi experience of federalism could be replicated in Syria, Barzani said, “We understand federalism as a just distribution of wealth and power. Federalism is a suitable and successful solution for multi-ethnic countries, like Syria, which is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious, and multi-sect country. I believe federalism is the ideal solution for Syria. But if there are obstacles to federalism, or they [the new authorities in Damascus] are not going to be convinced to adopt federalism, I don’t believe that the alternative should be suppression, oppression, and denial of the rights of others. The important thing is for Kurds to achieve their rights, the mechanism does not matter.”
Asked if he supported a “demilitarized zone” in Syria for Kurds, to placate Turkey, Barzani said any measure to placate the conflicting parties would be good.
Barzani said he longed to visit Qamishli [the main Kurdish-majority city in Syria] soon, saying Qamishli is “in my heart.”
He said the new regime in Syria could benefit greatly from Iraq's experience to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
On Iraq
Nakouzi asked if, in light of the developments in Iraq and Baghdad’s treatment of Kurds, whether Kurds considered secession from Iraq. Barzani replied, “We behave rationally and not recklessly…. I don’t like the word secession. The right to self-determination is a divine right God has given to any people. But the mechanism of achieving this right is through negotiation and mutual understanding with the people in the region with whom we live.”
Regarding KR and Baghdad’s relations, he said there was “no one single party that took decisions in Baghdad and there were multiple parties. But the major problem is intent.” He accused the parties in Baghdad of having failed to rebuild their part of the country and being bent on preventing Kurdistan’s development.
He said he respected Prime Minister Mohammed Shia al-Sudani, “but there are many obstacles on his way. He agreed with KRG Prime Minister [Masrour Barzani] on many issues, but he [i.e. Sudani] was not allowed to implement the agreements.” Here, he appeared to point to the various groups and Iran that are exerting influence over Sudani’s government.
On the three laws passed together as one package recently by the Iraqi Parliament, Barzani said the land and property restitution law was a victory for justice. He said if the Iraqi government did not return the ownership of the Kurdish properties seized by the regimes prior to 2003 and given to Arabs, then it would be “an act of occupation and this will not be accepted.”
Regarding withdrawing from Iraq’s political process, he said, “We have thought about the issue a lot. Kurds have not in Baghdad seeking posts like presidency, premiership, and parliamentary speakership, but are there for their national rights, the dignity of the people, and true partnership.” He said the agreement with other Shia and Sunni groups was based on three principles for administering Iraq: “partnership, consensus, and balance” among the three main communities, i.e. Shias, Sunni Arabs, and Kurds. “We want true partnership and will not accept to be followers of anybody.”
He added that if Kurds felt they were ignored and were not true partners, there would be no point in staying part of the Iraqi government just for the sake of maintaining some ministerial posts. When Nakouzi asked if this wouldn’t lead to violent conflict, Barzani said, “No, never. Not necessarily.”
He said the danger of the Israeli-Iranian confrontation reaching Iraq “had receded now to some extent. But if the armed factions kept attacking Israel, the danger of Israeli attacks would be real and serious.” He said Iraq was warned by both Israel and the US that if the attacks on Israel were not stopped, Iraq would be attacked too.
Asked if he advised dissolving the pro-Iran Shia armed factions, he said the armed factions need to be subjugated to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces and not interfere in politics. Otherwise, Iraq will be facing dangers.
On Kurdistan Region (KR) Domestic Politics
He said the KDP did not close the door on any group that wanted to participate in the new Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG). “In the latest talks, we made major progress with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) [led by Bafel Talabani], and we hope the government will be formed as soon as possible.”
On the form of the government, he said he wished all parties that won seats in the KR parliamentary elections held in October 2024 would participate in the government. He said it would be impossible and not acceptable to wait until after the Iraqi federal parliamentary elections [likely to take place in late 2025] to form the new KRG, adding that the elections allowed the KR to “restore its weight internationally.”
On Peace with Israel
Barzani concisely said, “We have seen the results of wars from 1949 to October 7 [2023], and they have not brought about except destruction… peace is the right way.”
On Iranian Influence in the Region
He said it was “clear” that Iranian influence had receded in the region, in Lebanon and Syria, but not in Iraq.
“The Iranians are smart. I hope there would be a peaceful, political solution to all problems. But I expect there will be either a political solution with Iran or a dangerous escalation.”
He said the Iraqi and Iranian relations should be based on mutual respect and there should be no interference.
He added that the coming to office of President Masoud Pezeshkian in Iran was a good opportunity to improve Iran’s relations with its own Kurds and Kurds elsewhere in the broader region.
He said during Pezeshkian’s visit to Kurdistan in September 2024, the Iranian president tried to fix the affairs that had been ruined by others. He also praised Pezeshkian’s mastery of the Kurdish language, noting that he and Pezeshkian shared both their place of birth and first names [Masoud].
On Turkey
Regarding the PKK, Barzani said if the PKK wanted to remain as a party and play a role in the future, it should give up fighting. He said fighting only made matters worse.
He said relations between Turkey and KR were good, “and we hope we can use their relationship in the interest of regional stability.” Barzani added that the KR could use its relationship with Turkey for the benefit of mending the relationship between Turkey and Syrian Kurds.
He said Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and other Turkish officials say Kurds and Turks are brothers, saying this was a new development in Turkish discourse.
He said, “The problem between Turkey and the PKK needs to be resolved…. The PKK cannot topple the Turkish government… and armed conflict will only lead to more bloodshed. There needs to be a peaceful solution. The time of conflict is over.”
He said the first time he met Erdogan was in 2009, and he told Barzani that he wanted “to resolve the Kurdish issue and that the Kurdish people’s existence could not be denied…. Many reasons could have led to this conclusion. First, fighting and war did not produce any results. Neither the PKK has ended [by Turkey], nor has it gained anything through violence. Maybe the developments in the region and the world also led the Turkish officials to reach the conclusion that only through brotherhood and cooperation they could build the country, and this is a good thing.”
On Trump and America
Barzani applauded Trump’s “honorable” declaration on the inauguration day that there will be only two genders in America: men and women. Barzani said he too believed in that as a believer and based on Quranic instructions that all creation is either male or female, adding “Trump returned to what God has willed for humanity.”
He said during Trump’s first term, he was new and did not have much knowledge of Kurds. Those running Iraq’s dossier at the [US] Embassy [in Baghdad] and elsewhere were “biased against Kurds.” He hoped for a different approach this time. Here, Barzani appeared to refer to the difficult experience Kurds had with the US administration during the 2017 independence referendum but he did not go into details, avoiding mentioning names.
Asked if he sat down with Trump, what would he tell the US president, Barzani said: “First, I hope and ask him to work toward security and stability in the region and help oppressed people.”
He described the calls for the US to leave Iraq as “grandstanding,” adding that, like in 2011, if the US left Iraq, the same bad scenarios of the past would reoccur. Barzani said the US presence was “very necessary” for regional stability.
On ISIS
He said the Islamic State (ISIS) is still “a serious threat,” particularly after the developments in Syria. He said the Peshmerga were “ready and more than ready” to counter ISIS if it regained the same strength as in the mid-2010s.
Here is the link to the interview in Arabic for those who are interested: